For the people who have a low budget: it should be possible to use the P-Audio SN-15B in the BassBabe with good results. At least here in the Netherlands these P-Audio woofers are a lot cheaper than 18sound 15ND-930.
Best regards,
Walt
Beiträge von walt
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4x Punisher Horn and 2x X-tro in action:
http://img173.echo.cx/img173/5137/pict00059ap.jpg
more pictures at: http://www.iven.nl/bouwproces/bouwproces.htm
Best regards,
Walt
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4x Punisher Horn and 2x X-tro in action:
http://img173.echo.cx/img173/5137/pict00059ap.jpg
more pictures at: http://www.iven.nl/bouwproces/bouwproces.htm
Best regards,
Walt
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Hello,
I have looked at the Bastelhorn. I have run some simulations with the 18Sound 18LW-1400. Indeed this is a very good design. I would refer to a previous post in this topic where I talked about the way 18sound defines their x-max. The 18LW-1400 has an 25mm long coil and a 15mm thick poleplate. The resulting 5mm real x-max limits the SPL max of the Bastelhorn around 50Hz. Sure you can drive the 18LW-1400 up to 9mm but the effect of decreasing BL-factor (same effect as with a Tuba 24 loaded with Eminence Beta 10 compared to HL-10A) will give you a drop in SPL max which is not visible in Hornresp. For example the Punisher horn uses a 12" with real 11.5mm x-max, this gives you a design that with the same input power as the Bastelhorn gives the same output above 60Hz but will be able to give 8-9db more max SPL at 50Hz. But there is no free lunch, the Punisher is 1.3x as big as the Bastelhorn. All in all I think both designs are just as good (But one could argue that a 12" cone behaves better than a rigid piston than a 18" cone...)
The 'BassBabe' does not play in the same class of heavey duty subwoofers. It is 1.35x as small a the Bastelhorn. It uses a 4kg 15" driver instead of a 13kg 18" monster. Also it doesn't need 1500W to reach its full potential. With its small size and weight of around 25kg it should be a nice sub to carry around and for its size it should still give some good usable output down to 50Hz. When a prototype is finished we will compare it to some other subs to get an idea about the performance.
Best regards,
Walt
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Hello,
I have looked at the Bastelhorn. I have run some simulations with the 18Sound 18LW-1400. Indeed this is a very good design. I would refer to a previous post in this topic where I talked about the way 18sound defines their x-max. The 18LW-1400 has an 25mm long coil and a 15mm thick poleplate. The resulting 5mm real x-max limits the SPL max of the Bastelhorn around 50Hz. Sure you can drive the 18LW-1400 up to 9mm but the effect of decreasing BL-factor (same effect as with a Tuba 24 loaded with Eminence Beta 10 compared to HL-10A) will give you a drop in SPL max which is not visible in Hornresp. For example the Punisher horn uses a 12" with real 11.5mm x-max, this gives you a design that with the same input power as the Bastelhorn gives the same output above 60Hz but will be able to give 8-9db more max SPL at 50Hz. But there is no free lunch, the Punisher is 1.3x as big as the Bastelhorn. All in all I think both designs are just as good (But one could argue that a 12" cone behaves better than a rigid piston than a 18" cone...)
The 'BassBabe' does not play in the same class of heavey duty subwoofers. It is 1.35x as small a the Bastelhorn. It uses a 4kg 15" driver instead of a 13kg 18" monster. Also it doesn't need 1500W to reach its full potential. With its small size and weight of around 25kg it should be a nice sub to carry around and for its size it should still give some good usable output down to 50Hz. When a prototype is finished we will compare it to some other subs to get an idea about the performance.
Best regards,
Walt
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Hello,
So far no protoype is build so please notice that so far I have only run simulations on the BassBabe. Although simulations might be very accurate I still prefer hearing/feeling the real thing before making strong claims.
The driver in the BassBabe driven at 800W RMS has a maximal cone movement of 13mm peak to peak. 18Sound quotes 7.5mm x-max but please notice this is just theoretically calculated using: (hvc-hag)/2 + 1/4hag
In the simulation there is used an algoritm for describing the BL behaviour when the cone runs past (hvc-hag)/2 what should be more accurate than using the 7.5mm x-max value as quoted by 18Sound. If you use 7.5mm in the simulations that is more then 6.5mm so then there will be no x-max problems.
As for the weight: yes, I didn't take into account all the hardware! But for such a light sub you probably don't need wheels and indeed you also don't need a steel grill.
Best regards,
Walt
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Hello,
So far no protoype is build so please notice that so far I have only run simulations on the BassBabe. Although simulations might be very accurate I still prefer hearing/feeling the real thing before making strong claims.
The driver in the BassBabe driven at 800W RMS has a maximal cone movement of 13mm peak to peak. 18Sound quotes 7.5mm x-max but please notice this is just theoretically calculated using: (hvc-hag)/2 + 1/4hag
In the simulation there is used an algoritm for describing the BL behaviour when the cone runs past (hvc-hag)/2 what should be more accurate than using the 7.5mm x-max value as quoted by 18Sound. If you use 7.5mm in the simulations that is more then 6.5mm so then there will be no x-max problems.
As for the weight: yes, I didn't take into account all the hardware! But for such a light sub you probably don't need wheels and indeed you also don't need a steel grill.
Best regards,
Walt
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Hello Cyber,
I am from the Netherlands. I used 700kg/m3 for the 15mm birch. I have taken into account powercompression due to running out of x-max (non-lineair BL) and heating of the voicecoil and also non-lineair behaviour of both ports.
I have planned this sub for the small drive-in shows for recorded music. I know because of the six order bandpass principle this won't be a very musical sub but hopefully it will put out some serious SPL for its size and weight. A small sub for the non critical (small) gigs where you still want to have some good bass power.
Best regards,
Walt
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Hello Cyber,
I am from the Netherlands. I used 700kg/m3 for the 15mm birch. I have taken into account powercompression due to running out of x-max (non-lineair BL) and heating of the voicecoil and also non-lineair behaviour of both ports.
I have planned this sub for the small drive-in shows for recorded music. I know because of the six order bandpass principle this won't be a very musical sub but hopefully it will put out some serious SPL for its size and weight. A small sub for the non critical (small) gigs where you still want to have some good bass power.
Best regards,
Walt
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Hello,
I saw some interesting things when simulating a cabinet for the 15ND-930 driver. It is true that the 1W response of a BR of 130 litres will have about the same response as the Bassbabe. But when you turn up the power (up to the 800W program power handling) effects due to BL non-lineairity come into play. The front port reduces cone movement for the bandpass. Therefore the cone can stay longer in its lineair range of motion. The simulations show that the bandpass can have 2-3db more output in the 60-90Hz region than a BR of same size and freq. range, both with the same 15-ND930 driver.
The effect of port non-lineairity is also obvious. Both designs suffer badly from this effect. This costs you about 2-3dB on maximal output. Still I used a 40cm diameter vent for the BR simulation... Not very small for a 15" driver this class.
Both sixth order bandpass and BR seem simple designs that is true but with all the additional non-lineair behaviour of driver and ports I think the Bassbabe will still be an interesting project to do. If it is possible I want to do a A/B/C with a BR-cab and a short rear loaded horn.
Best regards,
Walt
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Hello,
I saw some interesting things when simulating a cabinet for the 15ND-930 driver. It is true that the 1W response of a BR of 130 litres will have about the same response as the Bassbabe. But when you turn up the power (up to the 800W program power handling) effects due to BL non-lineairity come into play. The front port reduces cone movement for the bandpass. Therefore the cone can stay longer in its lineair range of motion. The simulations show that the bandpass can have 2-3db more output in the 60-90Hz region than a BR of same size and freq. range, both with the same 15-ND930 driver.
The effect of port non-lineairity is also obvious. Both designs suffer badly from this effect. This costs you about 2-3dB on maximal output. Still I used a 40cm diameter vent for the BR simulation... Not very small for a 15" driver this class.
Both sixth order bandpass and BR seem simple designs that is true but with all the additional non-lineair behaviour of driver and ports I think the Bassbabe will still be an interesting project to do. If it is possible I want to do a A/B/C with a BR-cab and a short rear loaded horn.
Best regards,
Walt
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First of all, sorry for the english language...
I am in the proces of design a new subwoofer called "BassBabe" It is a sixth order vented bandpass using a neodymium 15" woofer. It will have a total weight of around 25kg (including speaker) It will play from 52-120Hz -3db and have an efficiency of 97.5dB halfspace. Theoretical max SPL should be around 127dB. Total volume (including wood) will be around 160 litres. You can see a sketch over here:
http://img82.echo.cx/img82/9544/forum11jb.jpg
The Bassbabe is intended for the small shows when you don't want to bring the big and heavey basscabs and don't want to use kilowatts of amping. Of course two prototypes will be build very soon.
Best regards,
Walt
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First of all, sorry for the english language...
I am in the proces of design a new subwoofer called "BassBabe" It is a sixth order vented bandpass using a neodymium 15" woofer. It will have a total weight of around 25kg (including speaker) It will play from 52-120Hz -3db and have an efficiency of 97.5dB halfspace. Theoretical max SPL should be around 127dB. Total volume (including wood) will be around 160 litres. You can see a sketch over here:
http://img82.echo.cx/img82/9544/forum11jb.jpg
The Bassbabe is intended for the small shows when you don't want to bring the big and heavey basscabs and don't want to use kilowatts of amping. Of course two prototypes will be build very soon.
Best regards,
Walt
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A Hornresp input file would be nice to see. In my simulations a single Punisher reaches 50Hz not 40Hz. This is also what we found out in practice. When you use a single Punisher a side you van lift 46-50Hz with an EQ. When you use two a side we normally lift 40-45Hz with the EQ. Set the lowcut just under the lift frequency. Without a proper lowcut 1500W RMS will drive the Caire over its x-max.
The Punisher is a real long throw cabinet. It sounds best in the open air and than it reaches 50 metres with no problem. But we have used in indoors with succes. But for small gigs a pair of frontloaded 15 of 18 will do just fine.
Best regards,
Walt
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A Hornresp input file would be nice to see. In my simulations a single Punisher reaches 50Hz not 40Hz. This is also what we found out in practice. When you use a single Punisher a side you van lift 46-50Hz with an EQ. When you use two a side we normally lift 40-45Hz with the EQ. Set the lowcut just under the lift frequency. Without a proper lowcut 1500W RMS will drive the Caire over its x-max.
The Punisher is a real long throw cabinet. It sounds best in the open air and than it reaches 50 metres with no problem. But we have used in indoors with succes. But for small gigs a pair of frontloaded 15 of 18 will do just fine.
Best regards,
Walt
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The Punisher has high efficiency up to 200Hz that is not the problem. But due to all the folds the Punisher sounds bad when used that high. Here in holland most people run them from 90-120Hz I think. Also if you let them cover a larger range there will be less power in the real sub area. All in all I would not use them up to 200Hz. A shorter horn will do better
Best regards,
Walt
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The Punisher has high efficiency up to 200Hz that is not the problem. But due to all the folds the Punisher sounds bad when used that high. Here in holland most people run them from 90-120Hz I think. Also if you let them cover a larger range there will be less power in the real sub area. All in all I would not use them up to 200Hz. A shorter horn will do better
Best regards,
Walt
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The Punisher Horn was designed for the Ciare 12.00SW driver. It brings the efficiency up to >100dB/1w/1m. A Ciare will handle 1500W in this horn with no problems. A stack of 4 cabinets driven with 6000W makes your eyeballs shake and makes it difficult to breath when standing close.
Best regards,
Walt