Salary for an FOH engineer, please advice.

    Hello fellow technicians,

    I'm new in Germany. I'm looking for work anywhere between Berlin and Nuremberg. I stay most of the time in Beyreuth area.

    I applied to a company in Berlin. They asked me for my salary for:

    Zeitraum

    Stundensatz

    Tagessatz

    Tagessatz gilt für wieviel Stunden?

    werktags

    samstags

    sonn- und feiertags

    nachts


    Since it's the first time I'm looking for FOH jobs in Germany, I have difficulty to rate myself or to know how to charge for different types of days.

    Can you advice me?

    I have 10 years of experience. I have worked with digital consoles, line arrays, crowds of thousands, sound crew management, governmental and conference work.

    I am still learning German and I don't understand all that is being said. Although it's improving, obviously I am more suited for musical events than most. So I am aware of my disadvantage, and I wish for an advice about if that should be reflected in the salary I ask for.

    Thank you!

    Adam

    Zitat von Adam Harzuf

    Since it's the first time I'm looking for FOH jobs in Germany, I have difficulty to rate myself or to know how to charge for different types of days.

    Can you advice me?

    Dear Adam,

    welcome to the board

    normally, there is no difference in Salary for Weekends/Nights etc., so i would just write down you´re normal daily rate. This depends on youre skills, the area youre working, but i would say

    - normal Day rate salary (10 Hours) is 250 - 350 Euros

    - i do it that way, if it´s more then 10 Hours, i charge 1.5 Days, if it´s over 15 Hours 2 Days

    maybe that helps for a start. Beware that in Berlin the Rates are something lower, but maybe some Berlin colleagues can specify that.

    Hi Adam,

    there is often a local difference. F.E. If you more than 10 hours on the road in our town, they don't accept Daily-Salary x 1.5

    They expect Day-salary divide 10 and than multiplicated x working-hours.

    There is also a difference for Operators (250-400€) and helping Soundguys (200-280€), it's not easy to calculate for the whole Country.

    A lot of discussions on FB and other places started in the last 2 years, but there is no solution in sight. Thats a problem with employee and freelancer, it's not really easy to compare it.

    and yes, marcus words right: Berlin is lower, very lower :(

    peter birkholz

    pb-showtechnik.de

    Zitat von Teddytaste

    A lot of discussions on FB and other places started in the last 2 years, but there is no solution in sight. Thats a problem with employee and freelancer, it's not really easy to compare it.

    Thanks guys, for giving advice.

    Peter, I'm sorry but I didn't understand where lies the problem, as I didn't figure out how to rate myself considering freelance vs. employed. If you can give some clear comparable numbers, I would appreciate that!

    From the information you guys have provided, I suspect that considering my experience:

    FOH: A day in Berlin can be realistically rated at 250€, in other cities- 300€

    Helping the soundguy (wie heißt das auf Deutsch?): 150€ in Berlin, in other cities - 220€

    How does that sound?

    My hourly rate should be relatively a bit higher than my daily rate, so the companies would be encouraged to hire me daily. Is this logic valid in Germany?

    I would charge extra hours according to Day-salary divide 10 and than multiplied x working-hours.

    Another topic:

    In Israel, it's very rare for a sound engineer to be hired - many times even if he's the house engineer of a rental company. Almost all of us are freelances.

    In Germany, I received information that it's difficult to be a freelance because of the tax steps and the sudden increase of medical insurance monthly rates (600 euro, it's unbelievable!!)

    The conclusion I have, and correct me if I'm wrong, is to get hired for a part time job and get more freelance jobs around that.

    What are your views of the subject?

    Hi Adam,

    employees dont care about medical insurance, taxes, fees or whatever: they get all the time their money, whether they work or not.

    The Freelancer has to pay Taxes (different kinds), fees, insurances (different kinds) and a lot of other things. Freelancer are mostly expensive than a employee, but you can them hire & fire....or order them if its necessary.

    ...btw my medical insurance rate will be higher with every year, ich think it will reached 1.000€ when i'm 60 :(

    greetings

    peter birkholz

    pb-showtechnik.de

    It's also a question of your "business-model".

    I usually get 300-350€ / 10h, but there are jobs i don't get, because I'm high in price. There's a sound engineer living next to me working for 200-250€. He get's more jobs than i get - but he even need more jobs...

    freier Tontechniker & Eventplaner, auch Tätig im Vertrieb - hier aber rein privat unterwegs

    Zitat von Daniel M.

    It's also a question of your "business-model".

    I usually get 300-350€ / 10h, but there are jobs i don't get, because I'm high in price. There's a sound engineer living next to me working for 200-250€. He get's more jobs than i get - but he even need more jobs...

    Wie lange machst du das schon das du solche tagessätze fordern kannst ?

    ich würde mal sagen bei Hauptberuflichen geht unter 300€/Tag nix. Alles andere entzieht einem die Lebensgrundlage.

    Das hatten wir schon mehrmals durchgerechnet. Findest du sicher über die Forensuche.

    Die Billig-/Hobbyanbieter machen den Markt kaputt: können X32 buchstabieren und arbeiten für 100€ den Tag -.-

    Aber das ist eine andere Sache und schon 1000x diskutiert worden.

    Gruß

    Scyte

    Es gibt sicherlich Veranstaltungen, die keine 250-400€ für den Techniker her geben. Und für einen Freund mach ich den Job auch mal gratis. Bei allen anderen Veranstaltungen will ich Branchenübliches auch wenn Tontechnik mein Zweitgewerbe ist. Übrigens ist das vollkommen unabhängig vom verwendeten Material.

    Konsequente Preisdumper halten sich zumindest in unserer Gegend nicht all zu lange.

    Nachdem ich jahrelang gar keinen Ton und nur Planung gemacht habe, bin ich seit zwei Jahren selbstständig und seitdem auch wieder als Tonmann unterwegs.

    War damals zu Beginn mein Grundsatz absolut gar keinen Job unter 250€ anzunehmen, auch nicht für Freunde. War sicher zu Beginn nicht einfach Nein zu sagen. Gerade wenn das Konto leer war und ich reichlich Zeit hatte - hat sich für mich unterm Strich aber bewährt.

    Konkurrenz hab ich reichlich am Wochenende, denn es gibt hier richtige gute Hobby-X32-für-100€+Essen-pro-Tag-Bediener.

    Für alles andere sind die Dumper eher keine Konkkurenz für mich; die haben dann zwangsläufig auch mal Doppelbuchungen oder tauchen Mal völlig durchnächtigt auf der Baustelle auf... sowas macht man bei meinen Kunden genau einmal.

    Aber auch die Dumper halten sich: die machen halt Hochzeiten und private Feiern oder Sachen für die Stadt die öffentlich ausgeschrieben wurden... Ich hab da gar nicht den Anspruch das alles zu machen. Warum auch.

    Ich hab allerdings auch schon Angebote gesehen, auf denen ich für 200€ weiterberechnet wurde, obwohl ich 300€ abgerechnet habe. Darauf angesprochen sagte man mir: Der Kunde ist diese Preisstruktur gewohnt; wir finanzieren dich halt übers Material mit. ?(

    freier Tontechniker & Eventplaner, auch Tätig im Vertrieb - hier aber rein privat unterwegs

    Zitat von DJ Swen Bieler

    Wie lange machst du das schon das du solche tagessätze fordern kannst ?

    Gegenfrage: wie kannst du von 150 Euro Tagessatz leben?

    @ Adam:

    Different approach: start calculating with what you need to make your living – including insurance, taxes, periodic payments, rent, daily business and some reserves for unexpected costs, holiday, stuff like that. Pay attention to the fact, that as a freelance engineer, there is no guarantee for a five day working week – you will have more or less offdays, depending on season or longtime bookings for bands, artists or clients. Illness or incapacitation is another point – there is no compensation for a freelancer – except you run some kind of (mostly expensive) insurance. Go on with cutting down your regular income by roughly 30% and keep this money on a separate account for taxes – just as a guideline.

    Kein Applaus für Scheiße!